Offshore Outsourcing & Scammer
Blog about offshore outsourcing and scammer in the outsourcing industry
Why all these campaign offers from the low wage countries are SCAM?
by Rudolf Faix Wednesday, June 3, 2015 9:13 AM

Scam SchoolA company, which likes to outsource a campaign, is searching for a consultancy or outsourcing agency locally. The reason for this is that they like to feel save and have the same law situation for a contract. A local company can get easily verified. The hired consultancy agency gets paid from the outsourcer directly. It is normal that this one, which hires someone, pays the bill for it. For this are all these campaign offers with upfronts, royalty or however the fee is getting called nothing else then scam, because it shows that the broker or consultant does not have any contract with the client.

If a outsourcer is searching on the Internet abroad, then this one will not search for a consultancy agency or broker. Such a company is searching directly for a center, which can do the work. The contract structure and the verification process will be much more costly in time and workforce then to hire a consultant, which is doing all the work for them.

Additional has each one to respect the law in the destination country of the call. Consumer and customer data are in the traditional outsourcing countries (Australia, Canada, Europe Union, Ireland, New Zealand, USA, etc.) protected by law and are not allowed that others get access to them. Even if customer data are getting stolen this one, which has stored them, has to pay a fine. A nice example for this is the case from AT&T where 280,000 customer records got stolen from their own call center staff. AT&T had to pay a fine of US$ 25,000,000 for this case.  Do you really think that one of such companies give you access to their customer database when they are expecting such fines?

This shows already the reason why all the offered inbound and form filling campaigns are nothing else then scam.  You need only to think about it who is calling or which kind of forms should get filled. The most calls a company receive are coming from customers of the company. What can you do with such an incoming call if you have no access to the customer database? You are only able to forward the call to somebody, which has access to it. In such a case this one can pick up the call by himself too. The company will not save anything by outsourcing such a process. So why they shall outsource this kind of process?

Think now about the form filling process. Such campaigns have been available before the digital revolution has started. I started programming computer systems around 38 years ago. Since 30 years are already personal computer available. 1986 got the SQL (Structured Query Language) the first standardization. Since around 20 years are SQL databases in common use for storing data. That means all the data, which should get filled in forms, are already since more than 20 years digital available and the programs are able to fill forms automatically. There is no need to enter some data manually – the digital Stone Age is already a long time over! Why should you pay someone for a copy and paste work if there are programs are available which are doing the work within seconds?

Do you really think that any author is writing by hand or on a type writer? The first program I remember having used for writing letters has been Wordstar. The version 1 got sold already in the year 1978. It has been running on the CP/M System from Digital Research already and got later on ported to the system of MSDOS. Since 1983 is Microsoft Word available. Why should an author use a type writer or write his books by hand in this case? It is much easier to type it on a computer and forward it by email to the publisher, the editor can make easily his changes and forward it directly to the pressroom. With the export function is it easily to bring the book without typing into the eBook format. There is no manual interaction necessary. The books are getting stored for a reissue. Even old book got already digitalized during the past 30 years. So there is no need for eBook typing. Think about it, why should you pay an upfront fee for such a work? The answer is very simple: The scammer cannot get paid from any client for the invented process and the upfront fee is his only possible income in this case!

The next big scam is the tech support where the center should buy calls and charge the caller for the provided service.  In this case the center takes the risk about the way the calls are getting generated. A legal way to generate such calls is with advertising not possible. With advertisings at the best visited sites you can get one or two calls per day, because everybody knows someone, which can help by computer problems. The most common problems are network and driver problems. With network problems you have no access to the remote computer and cannot give any help. Driver installation from remote is very difficult too because in the most times you need exactly the model of the hardware part. An end user will not be able to tell it to you. In such a case are only the calls remaining, which are generated by scareware. Such scareware is illegal and the center can up in jail for making money generated by scareware, viruses, ransomware, etc. As the center is making money with the incoming calls is it reasonable that the center is the programmer or the distributor of the criminal software. The seller of the calls will be already trackless disappeared in such a case and the center owner will be alone in front of the law court. The devil takes the hindmost.

 

Which campaigns are remaining for offshore call centers in such a case?

The situation is very simple.  Campaigns other than lead generations from already heavy used data, which are getting traded between the centers, are not really available.

All the offered products from the real campaigns are on a pay per sale base and are well known from the spam emails. To sell such products by already heavy used calling data is not really easy and profitable. It is only profitable for the outsourcer because he is even saving the cost for the staff and has no risk about his product which is unsaleable on a normal way. For the center is it like fishing in troubled waters by taking all the risk.

 

Why all these offered offshore outsourcing campaigns where customer data are involved are nothing else then SCAM?
by Rudolf Faix Tuesday, May 5, 2015 3:08 AM

toys phone cellsLet us take a look first at the data protection law from Australia, European Union and the USA. All this directives and orders have in common that the consumer data are protected by law and this one which has collected them is responsible for the proper use of the collected data. If the data are getting used wrong, then this one, which has collected the data, is responsible in front of the law court for the misusage of the data. The fines are very high. It is not allowed to make data accessible in countries, where this data don’t have at least the same protection like in the country they got collected in respect of the law. Even if consumer data are getting stolen, the company will get prosecuted.

The fines for breaking the law are very high. You can see an example how high the fines are in the article “Data of 280,000 customers stolen: AT & T lost over $ 25 million”. Why companies shall take the risk for paying high fines for making their data accessible to offshore centers? Especially if they find out how the data are getting traded in the call center industry. The following screenshot from Facebook is showing how protected data are getting offered:

Facebook offers  Amit Girje

The above screenshot is only one example from many. Such data are not getting offered only on Facebook. You can find such offers at LinkedIn and a lot of sites.

As long as in your country is not the same or a better data protection rule guaranteed by law you are only able to use the already heavy used data, which are traded between the centers. This called one will not be really in the mood to buy something.

Even companies which are transferring consumer data between the USA and the European Union need to be certified by the international U.S.-EU Save Harbor Framework. The certification need to get renewed yearly. You can read about a judgment at "FTC Settles with Two Companies Falsely Claiming to Comply with International Safe Harbor Privacy Framework".

The next problem for call centers is the “Do Not Call List” where you have to scrub up your data against the list. You are declaring by signing up to the Don’t Call List that you are telemarketer and you’ll respect the local law. In this case you make yourself prosecutable to the local law and this law can get executed because you have accepted it before. Ignoring the Don’t Call List can result in high fines. The fines can get international prosecuted.

The next problem for call centers is the “Do Not Call List” where you have to scrub up your data against the list. You are declaring by signing up to the Don’t Call List that you are telemarketer and you’ll respect the local law. In this case you make yourself prosecutable to the local law and this law can get executed because you have accepted it before. Ignoring the Don’t Call List can result in high fines. The fines can get international prosecuted. An example of such a judgment can get read at "Court Grants Partial Summary Judgment in FTC Case Against Dish Network, Finding the Company Liable for Tens of Millions of Telemarketing Violations". That such judgments can get international prosecuted if proven by "Federal Court Orders Tech Support Scammers to Pay More Than $5.1 Million". All the Indian companies, which have been involved in this case, have been running into bankruptcy.

Centers you are searching for inbound campaigns? Think about who will be calling a company. What can you do with an inbound caller if you don’t have access to the consumer data because they are protected by law? For this are all inbound campaigns nothing else then SCAM.

Centers you are searching for form filling processes? Think about which data you need to put into a form. Since years all the consumer data are getting collected at the point of sales. In the USA even the signature get collected from digitizer pad. For copy and paste nobody will pay your agents. There are enough programs for automatize the process available. They are even cheaper than the salary of one agent for a month. For this reason all form filling processes are only scam.

If you think now logically, then you know why all this inbound campaigns and form filling processes are only getting offered with a huge upfront payment. Even the scammer has no other chance to get some money if he does not get it from you. He has no chance to get such a process and cheat you after you have done the work.

Even the client tries to burden all the legal risks to the centers by hiring them on a pay per sale base. For this they can say in front of the law court that they have only bought some leads from you and you have been working on your own risk.

A serious client will support you with phone numbers based on his selection. This phone numbers will be already scrubbed against the Do Not Call list. He will also provide you with an extension to his own phone system because he likes that the called ones are coming back to him for the case they have some questions or need some help.

A serious client will hire a marketing agency in his own country or living area and not a suspicious campaign broker from a low wage country, which try to make money with his campaign. The hired agency has the order to search for the best center for the client and gets paid from the client directly.

All other kinds of clients will burden you up the legal risk and they will provide you with products, which are already well-known from the email spam. For the case that you’ll not make enough sales to survive they even will tell you that you should buy some better data and to provide a better work. They even will lie you by telling that other centers are making sales with each call.

 

Scam campaign from mpavistechnologies.com
by Rudolf Faix Saturday, May 2, 2015 8:38 AM

mpavistechnologies.comI had one campaign listed from mpavistechnologies.com, which has not been scam. I have delisted this campaign as soon as I found Tech Support offers from mpavistechnolgies in Facebook. The tech support offers are all scam. The calls are getting generated by scareware, which is called computer fraud. From advertisements, even on Google, you'll not get enough calls, that it will be profitable to sell the calls. All the consumer protection organizations around the world are already warning about the "Tech Support calls".

I got forwarded a campaign from mpavistechnlogies.com. mpavistechnologies.com did not send me the campaign description directly, because they know that I'll classify such a campaign only as scam.

Q & A

You will be calling potential customers all over the U.S. Looking for customers, who are interested, cooperative, are the home owner and are not currently under contract with another security company.  You will live transfer those calls to our closing agents.

Do you charge set up fees?
We do not charge set up fees nor do we charge for the right to do the campaign. All we ask is that you pay for your VOIP.

We are investing in you - We supply the dialer, Leads and the VAKA (non-voice software). This all costs money that we provide to you for free - We also are investing our time, not only getting you set up, but also the initial and ongoing training.

 

  • If you decide to supply the dialer, then are the costs of the dialer your problem and not the problem of the call center. The call center can do nothing to influence this costs and for this are this costs not the problem of the center. Any existing dialer or the call center is not increasing his value because it is not get used. 

  • Data and leads are the problem of the client. If the data or the leads are not good, then the best call center will fail. 

  • You like to use VAKA, for this are the costs for the software your problem and not the problem of the center. If you think VAKA is the best solution for you, then you need to supply it and you'll never be able to bill it to the call center.

  • You are investing your time? If you decide to that a call center has to use your system, then you have to train them on your software. For this you get paid from the client!

So you have can even not say that you are investing already enough for the center if you are really investing NOTHING!!!

 

What are the VOIP charges?
The cost of the VOIP is .0079 per minute - You should budget $2 - $4 per agent per day

Can you use your own VOIP Provider?
No. We require that everyone use our VOIP provider, both the opening centers and the closing centers. The reason we do it is to avoid all the tech issues and to provide you with accurate reporting on all calls. Our calling plan allows for all the calls to be connected through tier one and two providers and offer more termination points and outgoing channels that any other provider. Because everyone is on the same system, using the same VOIP provider we do not experience latency issues, echoes, delays and disconnections. The calls are clean and flawless.

Do you profit from the centers using your VOIP Provider?
No. We do not profit from this. You get charged, what we get charged.

Can you deduct the VOIP from future payouts?
The VOIP must be prepaid in order to get started. It is not our VOIP Company (3rd party) - We do not pay it for you.
We will set up the VOIP account for you and provide you with the web portal and show you how to proceed

You will have complete control, as you will have access to the Web Portal (VOIP provider) there, you will be able to load your minutes and receive your VOIP reports

As you provide dialer, leads, client software, etc. you should not search for call centers, which are paying your VoIP minutes. The call centers have no possibility to influence the dialing behavior, the data quality and all surroundings. For this you have to provide the VoIP minutes too. In this case you can run your own center with your own agents. For what you'll need some call centers in this case? With this offer you show that you need them only for paying your phone bills and the salary of the agents!!!

YOU SHOW WITH THIS OFFER ALREADY THAT YOU NOT TRUST INTO THE CAMPAIGN!!!

PayPal
You must set up a PayPal account both to make payment to VOIP provider and to receive payment from us. It is really simple to do - Just go to their website and set up an account - It is the easiest method and the cheapest

What is the pay out?
We will pay you $6 per transfer, with a 60 second buffer

What is a 60 second buffer and why is it needed?
A 60 second buffer means, that when the call is transferred the closing agent has 60 seconds to determine if the transferred call was a qualified transfer, meaning the customer was interested, cooperative, was the home owner (not a renter) and was not under contract with another security company - if the call goes 60 seconds or greater, the transferred call will be considered billable and therefore you will be paid on it.

Here you show exactly what I have said before. You don't trust your data and your product. For this you offer a pay per sale. You are proofing that already in your next sentence "they must be a home owner". With this you show that you have data, but they are not selected to be from home owners. The call center shall sort the data out for you. With such data you can only offer a pay per hour per agent!!!

What are the qualifications for a transferred call?
There are 2 criteria for the calls to be transferred - 1) they must be a home owner and not a renter 2) they must not be under contract with another security company. They can have a preexisting security system; they just can’t be under contract, meaning the contract must have expired. We cannot accept either of the above - Therefore, it is in the agreement - If we see that you are transferring an unacceptable amount of renters or customers that are under contract, we will terminate the arrangement. - It means your agents are not doing their jobs, asking the correct questions and getting the correct answers

What can my center achieve?
That really all depends upon you and your agents - Your agents should be able to achieve 4 billable transfers per day each - Keep in mind, in an 8 hour day that is only 1 transfer every 2 hours. Your agents will be speaking to 500 people a day - That’s 1 out of every 125 people.

Your agents will be dialing 3000 - 5000 numbers per day each - speaking with between 300 - 500 customers a day

Let us make an example: In average a call gets answered after 3 times ringing. 3 times ringing is taking around 15 seconds. If we are dialing 3000 numbers then we can calculate the dialing time of 15 seconds * 3000 calls / 3600 = 12.5 hours for a 10 hours working day (Monday until Thursday).

The other way is you are using a dialer, which is already illegal in the USA. In this case you need to have a lot of money for the fine from the FTC. If you have millions of dollars why do you cry in this case about the VoIP minutes? It is nice from you that you are providing the dialer, because in this case you will get the punishment and not the center.

Take a look at http://news.wwpa.com/post/2015/04/30/ftc-and-ten-state-attorneys-general-take-action-against-political-survey-robocallers-pitching-cruise-line-vacations-to-the-bahamas.aspx. The responsible companies got punished with fines over 5 millions of dollars. Why are you crying about VoIP minutes and hourly rates for the agents if you have so much money in your wallet?

In any case your system is dialing and that need to be done on your own bill and not on the bill of the center. The center has no influence on this dial behavior.

 

What is your pay schedule?
The week starts on Friday and ends on Thursday - You will be paid the next day (Friday) - You will be paid via PayPal.

Is it possible to send payment to our international merchant account?
No, only if it is attached to your PayPal Account.

Calling Schedule
All times are based on EST. At present, we are open from 9am - 7pm EST Monday - Thursday, 9am - 5pm EST, Friday and 12pm - 5pm EST on Saturday.

53 hours of calling per week = 3180 minutes * 0.0079 = 25.122 $/week or in average 4.187 per day (6 days)

Training.
The scripts and training, we will provide them once the agreement is returned

Please go to tmicomm.com and watch the demo video.
I will personally do a live the training session with all your agents. The training will last approximately 1 1/2 hours. The training is divided into 4 sections 1) Background on the campaign 2) Dialer how it works – how to transfer 3) VAKA – How it works – how the system is laid out, what the recordings to use and when 4) listen to sample recordings of agents on their first days on the job. This will illustrate what the agents can expect and what not to do. It will get them past the learning curve quickly.

Your agents will then role play with each other - One will act as the customer, the other the agent. This will help get them familiarized with the system. Once you feel the agents are proficient, you will be free to start dialing.

Reports Disclosure
You will receive reports everyday showing exactly how many transfers were sent, how many of them where billable, all call durations and how much money is due.

You will also be granted admin access to the dialer reports. You will be able to live monitor your agent’s calls. Have access to all the recordings both, on the opening side and also on the closing side. In addition, you will be able to monitor your agent’s activity. You will know when they sign in, when they are on pause, how many calls they took and the result.

How long does it take to set up?
The set up process is very easy. Once we receive the agreement back, we will set you up in the system. Once that is complete, we will set up your VOIP account. You will then prepay your VOIP. Once set up you will change the audio settings on each agents work station. It will take a few minutes for each one. We will provide explicit directions that are easy to follow. In the event, you still need help our tech department will assist you. The whole process lasts about an hour.

this is http://tmicomm.com/main/?page_id=32
training which we will follow

mpavistechnologies.com shows with this offer that they have no idea from the call center business and from the rules of the FTC. They are only searching for someone, which is taking the risk for their campaigns. This one, which takes the risk has no possibility to influence and reduce the risk.

 

 

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Scammer Exposed

How to identify scam and bad selling products without making a background check – a translation between promotion and reality
by Rudolf Faix Monday, March 9, 2015 11:47 PM

The following list give you an overview how you can identify a scammer and bad selling products without making a background check - only by reading their offers with an open mind:

  • Earnings in the spotlight
    Every advertising, which puts the amount of earnings into the spotlight, is nothing else than scam. As higher the promoted earnings are, as less reachable they will be for the case it is not a scam.

  • Pay per sale
    Even the client knows that his product is hard to sell.  If the client has an easy selling product, than he would offer only an hourly rate for the sales people.Each business is done for making profit. Nobody likes to pay more than absolutely necessary.

  • High commission per sale
    As higher the promised commission per sale is as more difficult is it to sell the product. Nobody likes to pay more than it is absolutely necessary to find someone to doing the work.

  • Offer without a picture of a real person or of a celebrity
    The salesperson already cannot show his face in public.  Maybe he/she has scammed already some people and need to hide himself for this purpose. It is also possible that such a person gets searched already by the police or Interpol. They are browsing the social networks too.

  • Offers without an email address
    Such an offer is only a time waster. Such people even don’t know that the world has 24 time zones and are expecting that everybody is waiting for them.

  • Calling data (phone numbers with names) are not provided by the client
    Address agencies are already to expensive for the client. He expect that you are making with already heavy used data a big business. Hopefully the client will be able to pay the center for their work,

  • “genuine” offers
    Where is only written about a “genuine” campaign or product  than it is only scam. The person, who is offering something like that, does not even know what he is offering.

  • Email me for more details
    That is only a time waster. Such people are only collecting email addresses. Maybe they can sell It somewhere. A normal salesperson will describe his product very well, because he has less work with false requests in this case. Why he should make more work for himself than necessary.

  • Call me for more details
    That is even a larger time waster. Such a person is already afraid from the written words, which can get used against him. For this he likes to speak only. Such offers are in each case only a scam.

  • Act fast phrases like "Last Chance", "Limited Slots", "Limited Seats", "HURRY UP", etc.
    The best translation would be: Don’t prove the offer or make a background check. In such a case you’ll find the scam immediately.

  • Any upfront fees – however they are getting called
    That is the plumpest scam ever. If a client likes that you are using special software, than he has to pay for it. Maybe the client is already nearly bankrupt and cannot pay already the products, which you should use. In such a case he would even not be able to pay you for your work in the case it is not only a scam.

  • Royalty fees
    It proves only that the “broker” has no contract with the client. For this is it already scam.

  • Security deposit
    A security deposit is given normally to this one, which is working and has some investments to do. This is in the case the call center, because they are investing in staff and phone minutes. The broker gets paid from the client for whom he is working.

  • Exuberant praising a product or campaign
    You will not be able to sell such a product to normal people. Such products are normally overpriced and trash. The purpose of such a behavior is to find stupid people, which will buy it. With the exuberant praising of a product or campaign the salesperson likes to hide the known problems of the product.

  • MLM – Multi Level Marketing
    In such a system are getting low quality products for a very high price sold. The product price needs to pay your upline and need to be a winning for the company. You need to be happy if you are at least earning the costs you have with it.

  • Repeated posting of the same campaign
    Real campaigns need to get posted only once, they get very fast taken. If a campaign gest posted longer as a few days then is in any case something wrong with the campaign.

  • The offer sounds too good to be true
    In this case the offer is only a scam

 

As more from the above points are fitting to an offer as higher is the risk for running into a trap.

 

If the offer is interesting than you should continue with making a background check to avoid getting scammed.

A list of proved scammer can get found in the menu entry Scammer Exposed.

Offers from trusted and validated brokers can get found in the menu entry Fair Campaign Offers.

 

Analyzing the offers for offshore call centers
by Rudolf Faix Sunday, February 22, 2015 3:28 AM

For this we need to know first why companies like to outsource to offshore call center.

The answer is very simple. They like to maximize their earnings.  The average income in the high wage countries for telemarketer is around $20 per hour (Source: indeed.com from February 2015). Depending on the country are here additional expenses for the staff necessary. The real costs of a staff will be up to 50% higher than the salary of the staff.

A good and usable product is getting sold automatically if you present it in shops. There are other products like insurances, mortgages, etc. which are getting offered from brokers. Most of the insurances are offering combined packages, which are offering a discount. If the customer takes out one package of this group the price for the remaining things in the package will rise.

If a company offers a new combined package, then it has to have better conditions for the customer.  In this case the company needs to sell more of these packages to have the same winnings. No one gets money as a gift and the company needs to earn money too. This cannot be done by lowering the price for the customer without lowering the cost of sales too. The commission for the sales people will decrease for maximizing the profit of the company and their shareholders. Such a procedure results in a downward spiral in price and performance.

The costs for hiring offshore telemarketing centers are around at a quarter of the onshore prices. Mostly are their products simple not sellable or even the winnings not big enough for paying per hour. For this the most companies found here are offering only pay per sale.

This behavior is very short-sighted, because local people are losing their jobs. People, which have lost their job, have less or no money available. These peoples need to reduce their expenses too for having enough to survive until they find a new job. For this the companies are losing potential buyers. This is leading to the next downward spiral, where the products need to get cheaper and cheaper to get new customers. As nobody can offer the same performance for less money, the performance gets reduced too until the product is getting useless.

Such products shall get sold by using offshore call centers. In the most of the cases the companies are too greedy for supplying data (phone numbers and names) for the call center. The call center should even take the risk about the data. As the most serious data provider in the high wage country are selling data only locally, the international traded data are already heavily used and for this reason more or less useless. Nobody can perform with such kind of data.

The result is: SUCH COMPANIES ARE TO GREEDY AND DESTROY WITH THEIR GREEDINESS THEIR OWN BUSINESS!

 

You can use the following translation for the offers found here at LinkedIn or Facebook:

 

  • Pay per Sale
    The provider does not believe that his products can get sold or The provider does not believe that the call center can sell the products
    Why in this case he likes to go offshore?
    The reason is mostly that it is the last try before running into bankruptcy

  • High commission rate
    As higher the offered commission is as harder is it to sell the product.
    As higher the offered commission is as more useless is the product
    As higher the offered commission is as more financial problems the company has

  • No data provided
    The call center shall even take the risk and invest into the data for selling the product.
    The company has not enough funds already to invest into good data

  • Upfront payment, security deposit, etc.
    The company has not enough funds to pay the broker or to survive with out the payment of the "rich" call center owner. It is already too much what they are offering for this service.
Resume: The more of the above points apply as more dangerous it is for call center owners to strike a deal with such a company. The company can even running into bankruptcy when the call center performs very much. Don’t forget:  You cannot reach in the pocket of a naked one!
 
 

 

 

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AboutMe

I'm since more then 35 years in the computer business (programming and technical support) and using the Internet since it has started. Since 2002 I'm programming solutions for Asterisk and since 2004 I'm in the call center industry.

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