Offshore Outsourcing & Scammer

Let us take a look first at the data protection law from Australia, European Union and the USA. All this directives and orders have in common that the consumer data are protected by law and this one which has collected them is responsible for the proper use of the collected data. If the data are getting used wrong, then this one, which has collected the data, is responsible in front of the law court for the misusage of the data. The fines are very high. It is not allowed to make data accessible in countries, where this data don’t have at least the same protection like in the country they got collected in respect of the law. Even if consumer data are getting stolen, the company will get prosecuted.

The fines for breaking the law are very high. You can see an example how high the fines are in the article “Data of 280,000 customers stolen: AT & T lost over $ 25 million”. Why companies shall take the risk for paying high fines for making their data accessible to offshore centers? Especially if they find out how the data are getting traded in the call center industry. The following screenshot from Facebook is showing how protected data are getting offered:

The above screenshot is only one example from many. Such data are not getting offered only on Facebook. You can find such offers at LinkedIn and a lot of sites.

As long as in your country is not the same or a better data protection rule guaranteed by law you are only able to use the already heavy used data, which are traded between the centers. This called one will not be really in the mood to buy something.

Even companies which are transferring consumer data between the USA and the European Union need to be certified by the international U.S.-EU Save Harbor Framework. The certification need to get renewed yearly. You can read about a judgment at "FTC Settles with Two Companies Falsely Claiming to Comply with International Safe Harbor Privacy Framework".

The next problem for call centers is the “Do Not Call List” where you have to scrub up your data against the list. You are declaring by signing up to the Don’t Call List that you are telemarketer and you’ll respect the local law. In this case you make yourself prosecutable to the local law and this law can get executed because you have accepted it before. Ignoring the Don’t Call List can result in high fines. The fines can get international prosecuted.

The next problem for call centers is the “Do Not Call List” where you have to scrub up your data against the list. You are declaring by signing up to the Don’t Call List that you are telemarketer and you’ll respect the local law. In this case you make yourself prosecutable to the local law and this law can get executed because you have accepted it before. Ignoring the Don’t Call List can result in high fines. The fines can get international prosecuted. An example of such a judgment can get read at "Court Grants Partial Summary Judgment in FTC Case Against Dish Network, Finding the Company Liable for Tens of Millions of Telemarketing Violations". That such judgments can get international prosecuted if proven by "Federal Court Orders Tech Support Scammers to Pay More Than $5.1 Million". All the Indian companies, which have been involved in this case, have been running into bankruptcy.

Centers you are searching for inbound campaigns? Think about who will be calling a company. What can you do with an inbound caller if you don’t have access to the consumer data because they are protected by law? For this are all inbound campaigns nothing else then SCAM.

Centers you are searching for form filling processes? Think about which data you need to put into a form. Since years all the consumer data are getting collected at the point of sales. In the USA even the signature get collected from digitizer pad. For copy and paste nobody will pay your agents. There are enough programs for automatize the process available. They are even cheaper than the salary of one agent for a month. For this reason all form filling processes are only scam.

If you think now logically, then you know why all this inbound campaigns and form filling processes are only getting offered with a huge upfront payment. Even the scammer has no other chance to get some money if he does not get it from you. He has no chance to get such a process and cheat you after you have done the work.

Even the client tries to burden all the legal risks to the centers by hiring them on a pay per sale base. For this they can say in front of the law court that they have only bought some leads from you and you have been working on your own risk.

A serious client will support you with phone numbers based on his selection. This phone numbers will be already scrubbed against the Do Not Call list. He will also provide you with an extension to his own phone system because he likes that the called ones are coming back to him for the case they have some questions or need some help.

A serious client will hire a marketing agency in his own country or living area and not a suspicious campaign broker from a low wage country, which try to make money with his campaign. The hired agency has the order to search for the best center for the client and gets paid from the client directly.

All other kinds of clients will burden you up the legal risk and they will provide you with products, which are already well-known from the email spam. For the case that you’ll not make enough sales to survive they even will tell you that you should buy some better data and to provide a better work. They even will lie you by telling that other centers are making sales with each call.

For the case you did not read the start of the scam, then you should start reading at: Presumptive scammer Christine Wisner to get the content of the full case.

As Christine Wisner has not been reachable by any other possibility, I have sent here at 5pm Philippines time a Skype request. Please observe that she is available at her office from 10am until 6pm Philippines time. She accepted the invitation 7 hours and 20 minutes later (0:30am). Normal people, which are working from 10am until 6pm are already sleeping. Only some times they are up at this time.

It even seems that Christine Wisner is not located at the Philippines, because I think that she even don't know the time here. Nobody will make on Skype a conference after midnight. I think that she is located in the German speaking part of Europe or in the USA. The name Wisner and the name Reinhardt, which she tried to use as a reference in the chat, are German names. Only the first name Wendy is not German. There is one more German sounding name involved: Wendy Fischer. The time she has been online is the normal day time in the USA or the evening in Europe.

Christine Wisner is located in India. Her IP address or the proxy, which she is using, is 103.26.200.188 (March 22, 2015 01:18am GMT). This IP has the following information:

General IP Information

Geolocation Information for IP: 103.26.200.188

The given phone numbers in her profile seems to be from a free phone forwarding service, which has been running into bankruptcy or got canceled without prior notice, like it is written in the terms and conditions of such services.

With all here argumentation have been about the comment from Willpower Infotech Limited, which are only an unproven comment to the real facts:

• The phone numbers +63-2-371 1478 (phone) and +63-2-371 1479 (fax), written in her profile, don't exists and there are no phone directory entries for this phone numbers at the Philippines. A company with land lines will be listed in the public phone directory.
  
  
• The companies,written at her profiles, with the name Western Wood Co., Wildwood Co., Westwood Co. and West Wood Pvt. Ltd. are not existing at the Philippines.
  
  
• The different information about her education at her both profiles
  
  
• The same picture, which is only mirrored and has another cut from the same original

Even the given time has passed for sending me some proves about the above facts. The only result has been that she went in Skype from busy to offline.

As I still have the Austrian Timezone installed at my laptop the time is the Austrian one and not the Philippine time. You have to add 7 hours to the written time.

She could even not give any explanation about this facts in the following Skype chat with me (the screen shots of the chat are attached at the end of this article):

[20.03.2015 10:08:11] *** Rudolf Faix möchte Sie auf Skype hinzufügen

Hallo christine.wisner, ich möchte Sie als Kontakt aufnehmen. ***

[20.03.2015 17:30:13] *** Christine Wisner hat Kontaktdetails mit Rudolf Faix ausgetauscht. ***

[20.03.2015 19:34:55] Christine Wisner: Hi

[20.03.2015 20:04:34] Christine Wisner: what happened , mr. judgemental !!

[20.03.2015 20:04:55] Christine Wisner: please give your comment and replys ?

[20.03.2015 22:46:01] *** Verpasster Anruf von Christine Wisner. ***

[20.03.2015 22:46:28] Christine Wisner: you should not be pocking nose in others business without knowing things properly !

[20.03.2015 22:48:57] Christine Wisner: I AM WAITIMG TO HEAR FROM YOU MR. JUDGEMENTAL  !!

[20.03.2015 23:27:52] Rudolf Faix: I have been waiting to hear from you yesterday too because I liked to get a statement from you. I have seen that you have even blocked me on LinkedIn. The most of the scammer are doing that, but it does not help them and it makes them only more suspicious!

[20.03.2015 23:29:42] Christine Wisner: Can you come on a call?

[20.03.2015 23:30:12] Rudolf Faix: No, the written word is counting higher than the spoken one.

[20.03.2015 23:31:19] Christine Wisner: that means you should'nt be poking your nose in others business when you don't know the truth

[20.03.2015 23:32:02] Rudolf Faix: I did not hide myself. i have been only sleeping like each normal person.

[20.03.2015 23:32:36] Christine Wisner: if you follow the discussion that has been shared in the group along with the buyer Hope you will understand that you are wrong

[20.03.2015 23:33:13] Rudolf Faix: I have made already the screen shots from this discussion

[20.03.2015 23:33:50] Christine Wisner: somebody said you something and you made a judgement without knowing the fact?

[20.03.2015 23:35:10] Rudolf Faix: I have only listed his "writing" together with his name and I have made some background check and there I have found the two profiles. The two profiles are a fact

[20.03.2015 23:36:09] Christine Wisner: how can you say something about without knowing the fact or working with me?

[20.03.2015 23:36:53] Christine Wisner: I am there in the contact in skype you could have atleast for the truth and proof before you do anything

[20.03.2015 23:37:37] Christine Wisner: you should have some commonsense before you state anything without knowing the fact!

[20.03.2015 23:38:17] Rudolf Faix: Very simple it fit everything together. You blocked me on LinkedIn, you have ther two profiles with different informations which are excluding each other, a company which does not exist and a complaint where you hide yourself instead of trying to solve the conflict. What do I need more for making my opinion?

[20.03.2015 23:39:25] Rudolf Faix: You have been online and you did not respond to my skype invitation.

[20.03.2015 23:40:26] Christine Wisner: once you comment without knowing anything about me we are not genuine thats why I blocked you

[20.03.2015 23:40:48] Rudolf Faix: That says each scammer about himself.

[20.03.2015 23:43:01] Christine Wisner: I will bring centres commenting on the post that you uploaded saying that they all got paid showing their payment proof and proving that you are commenting on someone without knowing the fact and if you can bring other centres who are not paid by Us

[20.03.2015 23:43:38] Christine Wisner: Being an elderly person I should be respecting you and you should also at the same time respect others with their work

[20.03.2015 23:43:47] Rudolf Faix: You are even publishing phone and faxnumbers, which don't ring. What is the sense of it?

[20.03.2015 23:45:46] Christine Wisner: call me accordin to our time zome 10 am -5pm

[20.03.2015 23:45:54] Christine Wisner: you will get hold of me

[20.03.2015 23:46:23] Rudolf Faix: I'm at the Philippines. Only my laptop is showing the Austrian time.

[20.03.2015 23:46:59] Christine Wisner:  but at the end of the day the same question comes !! how can you be judgemental with out knowing the fact ?

[20.03.2015 23:47:47] Rudolf Faix: I have enough facts together for my comment. I only add the communications from the night and this one now

[20.03.2015 23:47:51] Christine Wisner: i say you mr. xxx didnot paid me , will that be the truth

[20.03.2015 23:48:21] Rudolf Faix: That is only a comment. The other facts are showing already enough

[20.03.2015 23:49:05] Christine Wisner: you are mr.all knowing

[20.03.2015 23:49:08] Christine Wisner: TY

[20.03.2015 23:49:40] Rudolf Faix: If you think so, then will it be like this.

[20.03.2015 23:49:46] Christine Wisner: even after showing you the proof , you are arguing with me !

[20.03.2015 23:51:19] Christine Wisner: OK ,i am a fraud for you fine ! please get the facts from :

[20.03.2015 23:51:24] Christine Wisner: wendy.reinhardt33 and chad.saddoris

[20.03.2015 23:51:33] Rudolf Faix: Sorry, but you did not show me anything or give me any explaination about the fact, which I have written. I don't mean the part of Willpower Infotech Limited. I mean that about the 2 profiles, the different education, the missing company, the missing phone book entry of a "company"

[20.03.2015 23:53:01] Rudolf Faix: The Western Wood Co., Wildwood Co., Westwood Co, West Wood Pvt. Ltd.

[20.03.2015 23:53:40] Rudolf Faix: This are the facts and not the information of Willpower Infotech Limited

[20.03.2015 23:55:30] Rudolf Faix: The phone numbers +63-2-371 1478 and +63-2-371 1479, which have not been ringing yesterday during the day. I have called with different phones.

[20.03.2015 23:56:16] Rudolf Faix: Even your friends cannot help you against this facts.

[00:00:50] Rudolf Faix: Both pictures at the profiles are from the same original. They are only mirrored and have another cut. That is a fact too

[00:13:12] Rudolf Faix: I give you until 12 noon time to send me a copy from your registration of the company. You have written that you are in the office from 10am until 6pm. I'll verify it and publish my next article afterwards.

I got during the weekend the following email:

I’m one of your followers here in LinkedIn. We are a new call center here at the Philippines. We are currently dialing 2 outbound campaigns. But i think our current campaigns are not fitted for us. Our clients have positive feedbacks with our agents. But I think our income is not enough to cover our expenses.
We are currently dialing timeshare. For the month of January of the current year we had 60 confirmed appointments but only 14 showed up. Our expenses range for270k-300k. Income is not enough for us to grow. 

The problem is:

• You’ll not find for this kind of vacations a lot of people.
  
  
• Why should the people limit their self by making for the rest of their life their vacations at the same place?
  
  
• Would you buy something what you use once a year?
  
  
• If you rent a hotel room and have problem with the service, then you’ll change the hotel. With timeshare is this not possible.
  
  
• If there is nature catastrophe or an accident, which makes the beach unusable, then you would not make in such an area vacations. If you have timeshare, you have to pay in any case.
  
  
• If you like to make vacations at another place of the world, you’ll not save anything. Who knows what will happen the next minute. Why you shall make a decision now for the rest of your life?
  
  
• What happens, if the timeshare company runs into bankruptcy? You lose your money or your value too.

Such a product will get bought only from some stupid people. Especially if they have time after saying yes on the phone until going there, they can inform themselves about the system. In such a case they will not show up for making the contract.

I can only say the call center owner is guilty by himself. Maybe he has seen only the amount of the commission and not the product.

BROKERS; YOU MAKE YOURSELF UNBELIEVABLE WITH SUCH PRODUCTS!

CALL CENTERS, IF YOU GET SUCH OFFERS WORK ONLY ON A HOURLY PAID RATE!

For this we need to know first why companies like to outsource to offshore call center.

The answer is very simple. They like to maximize their earnings.  The average income in the high wage countries for telemarketer is around $20 per hour (Source: indeed.com from February 2015). Depending on the country are here additional expenses for the staff necessary. The real costs of a staff will be up to 50% higher than the salary of the staff.

A good and usable product is getting sold automatically if you present it in shops. There are other products like insurances, mortgages, etc. which are getting offered from brokers. Most of the insurances are offering combined packages, which are offering a discount. If the customer takes out one package of this group the price for the remaining things in the package will rise.

If a company offers a new combined package, then it has to have better conditions for the customer.  In this case the company needs to sell more of these packages to have the same winnings. No one gets money as a gift and the company needs to earn money too. This cannot be done by lowering the price for the customer without lowering the cost of sales too. The commission for the sales people will decrease for maximizing the profit of the company and their shareholders. Such a procedure results in a downward spiral in price and performance.

The costs for hiring offshore telemarketing centers are around at a quarter of the onshore prices. Mostly are their products simple not sellable or even the winnings not big enough for paying per hour. For this the most companies found here are offering only pay per sale.

This behavior is very short-sighted, because local people are losing their jobs. People, which have lost their job, have less or no money available. These peoples need to reduce their expenses too for having enough to survive until they find a new job. For this the companies are losing potential buyers. This is leading to the next downward spiral, where the products need to get cheaper and cheaper to get new customers. As nobody can offer the same performance for less money, the performance gets reduced too until the product is getting useless.

Such products shall get sold by using offshore call centers. In the most of the cases the companies are too greedy for supplying data (phone numbers and names) for the call center. The call center should even take the risk about the data. As the most serious data provider in the high wage country are selling data only locally, the international traded data are already heavily used and for this reason more or less useless. Nobody can perform with such kind of data.

The result is: SUCH COMPANIES ARE TO GREEDY AND DESTROY WITH THEIR GREEDINESS THEIR OWN BUSINESS!

You can use the following translation for the offers found here at LinkedIn or Facebook:

• Pay per Sale
  The provider does not believe that his products can get sold or The provider does not believe that the call center can sell the products
  Why in this case he likes to go offshore?
  The reason is mostly that it is the last try before running into bankruptcy
  
  
• High commission rate
  As higher the offered commission is as harder is it to sell the product.
  As higher the offered commission is as more useless is the product
  As higher the offered commission is as more financial problems the company has
  
  
• No data provided
  The call center shall even take the risk and invest into the data for selling the product.
  The company has not enough funds already to invest into good data
  
  
• Upfront payment, security deposit, etc.
  The company has not enough funds to pay the broker or to survive with out the payment of the "rich" call center owner. It is already too much what they are offering for this service.

Since I’m bashing against spammers and scammers, I get a lot of messages, which are sounding similar. Today morning I got this message from India:

I am in process of setting up call center and has been discussing various business opportunities with the brokers. Everyone asked for upfront consultancy fees and their responsibility ends with the SLA signed up with the business client. I found it too much risky and when I questioned this process and suggested alternate business modes like you mentioned monthly royalty fees or consultancy fees after one month billing cycle or even asked for bank guarantee but none of these brokers has shown interest and were not ready to proceed further.

At the end I am happy that i didn't proceed as one of known contacts has wasted their time and money both with the broker.”

Brokers, I’m not your enemy, but if you are continuing like you have done it until now, you are destroying your own business! You need to do something against the black sheep’s (spammer, scammer and other criminals) in your branch. Even your best and largest customer can run into bankruptcy. How you will survive if you are getting rejected from other centers, because you are scamming the same way like others?

Call centers, I cannot help you with campaigns, because I’m not a campaign broker. A few days ago one contact from Spain has asked me, if I know a Spanish speaking call center. I have forwarded the contact data of the only Spanish speaking call center, which I have known at this time, which is based in Guatemala for free.  I even don’t know if they are making or have made a contract. I can only recommend you to speak and help each other. Together you’ll be strong and this kind of brokers, which like to draw only money from you. It is better to earn nothing than to pay for nothing. As soon they are not able to sell campaigns on the way they have done it until now, the real brokers will accept your rules in making business.